anbd how come their vision came to life ONLY after US led scientists developed the nuclear bomb?

Before that, USA was a small spec on the world's arena...despite of what founding fathers had in mind.

I haven't seen God fighting British in 1776,
I was mistaken by thought that it was human being George Washington who fought for those rights and YES,
they were given by the men and med indeed can take them away....
like seizures and freezes of funds, for example, in RICO and drug cases BEFORE one is pronounced guilty by the court of law!

You think God or Founding Fathers had THIS in mind?
Bottos, who had the first hand expereince of being on the recieving end of things,
might disagree....

in fact, I believe the US was a place for people to come to in order to ESCAPE RELIGIOUS persecutions taking place...

when it comes to the environment, bush argues that SCIENCE is his determining factor....

when it comes to life he says science is wrong, and god is the ONLY answear....

problem is that the USA has a freedom called freedom of religion, so one can not and should not apply his own personal beliefs above science when dealing with matters of others health, especally when it comes to a breach of the number one freedom.... life, liberty ,and the pursuiot of happiness.

you do?
Really?

Do you believe in Japanese Human Life had the right to live and not be bombed by
Atomic Bombs like they were in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

YES or NO would suffice,
before we talk about " sanctity " of human life in Iraq, Iran, North Korea and few other places where we are likely to take military action soon.

HOW EXACTLY YOUR GOD AND YOUR BELIEVES ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT:
all human life and it's sanctity created equal, but somje american sanctity of life is more equal than the others?

I believe in:

Separation of Church & State

Balanced budget & all the economic benefits it provides

Pay based on skills and experience - and not bias

Equal opportunities for those willing to WORK for them

As many 'Freedoms of choice, as can be rendered without stepping on someone elses Freedoms.

A balance between 'big business who provides so many opportunities - and GREED, EGO, and POWER.

I believe that it is MY body & I should be able to choose how it is used. I should be able to have an abortion if I want, I should be able to choose how I die if applicable.

I have the right to believe in a higher being, or not to believe. I do not want others beliefs shoved on me, or do I have the right to do that to others.

I am lost on gun control - I hate and am afraid of guns & don't know why in God's name, a lot of people want them around. I believe they are dangerous. But, that is me.....Many are hunters or were raised around guns - so, I believe that others have the same right as I do to choose, as long as they do NOT abuse that right. (I wish they had an IQ test for gun owners though ...:-)

I believe in scientific research more than I believe in 'the bible tells me so - and I believe that when science goes too far - both the right and the left will stop it. So, hindering research now for what MIGHT or MIGHT NOT happen in the furure, is bogus.

I believe in political campaigns that do not waste our time and insult our intelligence. Things that happened 30 years ago are not as relevant as things that happened 5 years ago, or views of the future; and the campaign time and commercials should indicate that.

I probably strongly believe in a lot of others things that are not coming to mind - but looking for a qualified candidate who believes as I do...... It certainly is not Bush.... but......... where is he/she?

I am tracing IP's as we speak, as I suspect Jerry Fallwel hacked into Mike's acount,
stay tuned!

Man, the sheep are loud in this thread ... and the stereophonic balance between left and right is almost perfect.

Mat 18:18 - Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Giving explicit authority to the church descended through St.Peter ie RC...the explicit right that what the Church holds true on earth , so shall it be in heaven.


so if the Pope says , bomb the fuck out of japan , God agrees.


;-)))


see "Dogma"

;-)))

Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.

Mike, Men take life away now under the guise of the death penalty...

( I am not oppossed to the death penalty btw) I am just saying that men do take life away already in the name of the greater good of mankind...

and many wars have been fought over religion. or better yet, in the name of GOD..

is a loving god that forgives sinners, is that a god of wrath?

( serge please dont ask me to look up anything religious LOL)

Mike, Men take life away now under the guise of the death penalty...

( I am not oppossed to the death penalty btw) I am just saying that men do take life away already in the name of the greater good of mankind...

and many wars have been fought over religion. or better yet, in the name of GOD..

is a loving god that forgives sinners, is that a god of wrath?

( serge please dont ask me to look up anything religious LOL) [/b][/quote]


Joe I am fine wth death penalty.

I also understand that hundred of millions have been killed in the name of God.
The problem with orginized religion is that is a HUMAN endeavour, then it will always be flawed. The more power, more money involved the worse it is.

I am definately for seperation of Church and State. There is no one specific religion that has a monopoly on the truth.

Where do basic human rights come from??

Mike,
now when you are 2 inches away from becoming a preacher,
my mother in law is praying for you as well,
and I say,
GO FOR IT!

antiquated or modern?

more at
http://www.fact-index.com/h/hu/human_rights.html

Mike,
now when you are 2 inches away from becoming a preacher,
my mother in law is praying for you as well,
and I say,
GO FOR IT! [/b][/quote]


Serge you can choose what you want, I do not judge people based on their religious beliefs. It seems you do.

Serge you can choose what you want, I do not judge people based on their religious beliefs. It seems you do. [/b][/quote]
...and I'll properly spank myself for it,
I promise!
Meanwhile....you'll be spanked even harder, and for ALL Eternity because.....
while you post on porno board and not following 10 commandments,
http://cotac.com/jesus.jpg

...and I'll properly spank myself for it,
I promise!
Meanwhile....you'll be spanked even harder, and for ALL Eternity because.....
while you post on porno board and not following 10 commandments,
http://cotac.com/jesus.jpg [/b][/quote]


Serge you are presumptous to think you know my religious beliefs. They are unique and my own.

....herecy!
I don't know them per se,
but I know hoiw close they are to Bush's on the IMPORTANT issues,
you said it yourself,
don't flip flop on me!
;-)))

....herecy!
I don't know them per se,
but I know hoiw close they are to Bush's on the IMPORTANT issues,
you said it yourself,
don't flip flop on me!
;-))) [/b][/quote]


But it's not all based on RELIGIOUS beliefs. Just because Bush beleives something and attributes it to religion does not mean I do. I have other reason to justify my stances.

I took a few ethics classes in undergrad, including one on medical ethics ( thought it would be a cool job a ethecist on staff at hospital - seems like a long time ago). The real answers for my issues are deeper then cause "God says so".

I am not against abortion.... the only problem I see wth abortion is the wrong people or not enough of the right people are getting them. There seems to be more morons every year.

I am however against abortion in late term, unless its a medical threat to mother.

I do not flip flop Serge. You know I am the more consistent in our relationship. I do change my mind, I do learn lessons, and I have been wrong many times. A man who does not continue to question his stances, and logic is a fool. I however, do not change my mind based on polls, or being popular....

and what is YOUR reason to be against stem cell research?
especially in the NEW revelation that you are NOT against abortions....

oh, you don't have to worry about it with me,
I'll make you change your stand based upon LOGIC and historical facts, rather on the popularity polls
;-)))

so....what did you say about European problems due to their secularism?

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and shoirt Euros in the futures market?

If you are correct,
you should make a KILLING like Soros did when he shorted UK pound
;-))))

oh, you don't have to worry about it with me,
I'll make you change your stand based upon LOGIC and historical facts, rather on the popularity polls
;-)))

so....what did you say about European problems due to their secularism?

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and shoirt Euros in the futures market?

If you are correct,
you should make a KILLING like Soros did when he shorted UK pound
;-)))) [/b][/quote]


I do not consider England to be part of the main body of Europe, fortunately for them the Channel insulates them somewhat from the taudry influences of Western Europeans.

As far as shorting the Euro, or other forms of pofiting on Europe's problems, I have other investments which I think will have better returns.

However, I do know these things. The European Union has some inherent flaws which are being glossed over now, but may tear it apart. I know that to this day the United States military keeps large military garisons IN Europe. I know the top 4 American companies have a higher value then the entire stockmarket of Germany and France combined. I know the birth rate for arabs in western europe is 5 times that of the average european.

As far as communications, of course they are ahead. Most European countries are the size of Louisiana, with tremendous population density, and the Telco industry in the US has been regulated to much. ( this is also why S. Koreans are spanking the US when it comes to broadband connections).

How much money do you have invested in Europe Serge? IF you had a million dollar to invest, an are looking for returns in 10, 20, 30 years ( long term) would you invest it in the US, or in Europe?

Oh and Serge, between us boys.... we still know who is the more stable. Who flip flops less....

It is ok, being a flip flopper is ok as long as you are not running for President.

:P

I must have been absent that day.....



;-))))

HAHAHA no doubt.

Honestly I think of the amount of $$ I left at table and out of my pocket because of these classes, and the way my parents raised me!!

I blame them!!

slightly off topic now..

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Day after final US public debate, Bush opens 4-point lead over Democratic challenger Kerry, gaining most among undecideds - according to Reuter-Zogby poll. Bush leads in 42 out of 65 polls conducted in last 24 hours, Kerry in 15. Eight polls record a tie. Pew Research predicts a 16 % win for Bush in Nov. 2 election, Time Magazine – 11%.
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