You guys gotta be kidding. Calling this woman a hero cheapens the word. She is a manufactured for tv babe who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. What about the big black woman who was shot in the ankles and only got a thirty per cent disability pension. She took a lot more shit than this cute white girl. Jessica is a CNN/Military confection and if you guys can't see this, you are media victims.
Just because you go to war does not make you a hero. If you manage to distinguish yourself, save lives, resist torture or die trying, you are a hero. This ain't even a war yet. The fun has only started. I am old enough to remember when American "advisors" were in Viet Nam. Then it just escalated until another military concoction brought in the troops and many died and many heroes died in the shit hole that was south east asia. To call this woman a hero does a great disservice to those brave men and the memory of heroes that came back in body bags. This is just sick sick sick. :headwall:

Part of the magic is that she was rescued.....The miltary had to love that. That is what separates her story from most of the others.

Sort of like the movie made about the 'raid on Entebe by Israel. It makes for a good story.

Entebbe was a brilliant, well planned and executed military maneuver. This was given to them on a plate.....and staged for TV. The whole thing is a crock and I can't believe anyone swallows this BS. People who believe this shit got America into this lost cause in the first place.

If she had come home in a body bag would she be a hero then?

Ok, first thing I agree with those who say anyone who puts their ass on the line for their country is a hero. Period. P.O.W.'s are a special breed of hero because they often give up more for their country than most of us can even imagine.

Lynch is certainly no more or less of a hero than anyone else over there who was capture or killed. She does NOT deserve any special medals. They were in a supply/maintenance convoy, their dumbasses got off course and got caught. If anyone deserves a medal, it's the team who went in and rescued her. They risked all of their lives to save that of a comrade.

It is a story that has captivated people though. It's a free market, supply and demand dictates that there's money in the story. So more power to her as she cashes it in.

Would she get the same coverage if she were not cute and female? Probably not. Does she deserve any more sympathy than any other P.O.W. who might've received similar treatment? No, actually she doesn't. If you want equality and want to put women on the battlefield, even in non-combat roles, you gotta accept the potential consequences of the action.

If you're gonna dance, sooner or later ya gotta pay the fiddler!

here's what just got posted on drudge a bit ago:

JESSICA LYNCH DISPUTES ARMY ACCOUNT OF DRAMATIC RESCUE!

Jessica Lynch criticized military for exaggerating accounts of her rescue and recasting her ordeal as patriotic fable.... MORE..

Asked by ABCNEWS anchor Diane Sawyer if military's portrayal of rescue bothered her, Lynch said: 'Yeah, it does. It does that they used me as a way to symbolize all this stuff. Yeah, it's wrong' ... Asked how she felt about reports of her heroism: 'It hurt in a way that people would make up stories that they had no truth about. Only I would have been able to know that, because the other four people on my vehicle aren't here to tell the story. So I would have been the only one able to say, Yeah, I went down shooting. But I didn't' ...

Asked about claims the military exaggerated danger of the rescue mission: 'Yeah, I don't think it happened quite like that'...

************************************************** **********

i have a feeling we'll be hearing more about this in the future.......

I think we have already covered that.

Everyone here is in agreement that the government, the media, and the publics insatiable appetite for news right now blew the whole story out of proportion regarding her capture and rescue but the fact remains that she was seriously injured in the whole process, as well as raped while in captivity and will suffer with this the rest of her life.

My original intent of the thread was to get opinions on Lynch as the story and her life is now i.e. the book deal and TV story.

Anyone who still believes the original story as it came out is crazy.

This thread needs TheKing. He is serious Oprano material.

But yeah, if she comes out and says the administrations story was all bullshit. Christ, that will be devastating.



Last edited by [Labret] at Nov 6 2003, 09:47 PM

This thread needs TheKing. He is serious Oprano material.

But yeah, if she comes out and says the administrations story was all bullshit. Christ, that will be devastating.[/b][/quote]
I don't think it was entirely bullshit.

More along the lines of the media picked it up, the country needed a hero, and no one said anything to the contrary.

Now the dust has settled and we are left with the book, the interview, and a made for tv movie.


Fell free to continue this among yourselves... I am going to bed.



Last edited by dirtyone at Nov 6 2003, 09:54 PM

if they make it a movie, they should get kobe to play the iraqi that dips his meat in her backdoor

POW's get special license plates and dont have to pay for tabs right?

Score. I would let an Iraqi play with my doodle hole for free tabs and a cool license plate for life.

As a former jarhead I must admit I am not, nor have I ever been in the throes of a jessicagasm. She's a relatively pretty white girl in a non combat unit that got lost in the desert and captured. It happens. It shouldnt, but it does.
She isn't any more a hero than any of the other fighting men & women stationed anywhere else across this wonderful globe. Yes, people are shooting at them in Iraq. Yes it is dangerous. But it is their job, and they are doing it, for the most part with honor. But heroism is a different standard altogether. It is ABOVE & BEYOND the call of duty.
I personally feel that the young urban male, struggling to keep an honest 9-5 job, making a little better than minimum wage while walking through the mean streets of big city USA, going past his high school bros peddling crack to get to a bus because he cant afford a car. All the while not giving in to the easy cash options readily available to him. Or an 18 year old girl faced with the same choices and 2 kids to take care of. To me, those are heroic actions.
Surviving isn't, not to me.
There are other women who have been taken prisoner, suffered the same as Jessica has or worse, yet they get no publicity. No one knows their names. I don't blame Jessica for the inflated hype surrounding her at all. Take the money and run little girl is what I say. But I lost any shred of respect for her the day I saw the Iraqi (lawyer) who risked his life twice, walking miles and miles to tell the Marines the info they needed to rescue her, when he came to the town she was in to receive some small award of appreciation, and Jessica Lynch did not even bother to show up. He was a true gentleman, and conducted himself with quiet humble dignity. HE is the hero of this story. Not the backwoods little girl whose ingratitude went widely unnoticed.

spaz

Spaz, she is saying that she doesn't remember him whatsoever, and claims that she *does* remember all of the people she interacted with in the hospital. This is probably part of the "blocking out" that she's done, or he simply didn't go into her room and speak with her like he said he did. Perhaps he exagerrated that part a bit for dramatics and really just stood outside her room looking in through the glass.

As for her saying the rescue was overplayed - how would she know? Her view of the entire thing consisted of having a bunch of Marines come into her room, grab her and carry her out to the copter, and flying out. She has no idea - and can have no firsthand idea - of what those guys went through to get in there to get her.

I don't think you have to come home in a body bag to be a hero. I am thankful to everyone - man or woman - who has put on a uniform and protected my freedom. They're all heros to me and deserve to be treated a lot better than what they get.

I couldn't agree with you more Carrie. They do deserve to be treated better than they have been in the past. But I will give you three military men that are true heros in my own eyes
Sgt York, this man did things that are truely unbelieveable. A hero to the bone who could never accept it.
Chesty Puller, Every Jarheads definition of a true Marine. This man had so many ribbons and medals to where them all they would have wrapped over his shoulders and onto his back. He had to get a Presidential approval to go to formal functions and NOT WEAR all of them.
My Dad. 1 Silver Star (with a "V") 2 Bronze stars (with oak leaf clusters) 4 Purple Hearts, all from Nam. He showed me continuously what true strength of character really is, and put in me a desire to be 'one of the best' at anything I do.
As a former military man myself, I can say that if I were in the situation Jessica finds herself in, I would be kind of embarrassed by the attention. I am not saying how she should or shouldnt act. Only how Iwould. I would feel that I was only doing my job, surviving with my life, and coming back home to my family.
I don't know, maybe my standard of what a hero is is a bit to high.

That could all be true, but even if he stood outside her window jerking off he still put his own life at risk to get the info to he Marines, not once, but twice (they told him to go back and get more intel) That takes some brass ones in my old weak eyes :)

spaz

By your thinking, then, Sgt. Alvin York, Audie Murphy, and many others were not heroes, either.

The IQ doesn't have anything to do with it. Your heroes are probably athletes, right? Most of them are about as smart as a doorknob; and they have done nothing that could be called truly heroic. :grrr: :nyanya: :ph34r:

I think it is admirable that Americans are respecting the military and the job those men and women do, but the monicure(sp) of Hero, IMO, and that of a lot of military personel is, it should only be given to those who have shown "Uncommon Valor"

spaz

I think there are levels of being a hero. The bottom rung for me is being in a combat ( even if not a combat unit), and being a POW... Maybe there is some other word that would fit better. Obviously she did not go above and beyond the call of duty. She should not be receiving and medals but for the Purple Heart.

Yeah, athletes. You got me all figured out. I watch sports probably as much as you read.

Where in that did you read that I thought you had to be a genius to be a hero? I simply said she was dumb as a stump. It was painfully embarrassing listening to her stumblefuck her way through a poorly written statement that sounded like it was penned by an 8 year old. How she made it into the military is beyond me, I thought we had tougher standards post Vietnam. Its no wonder she was just a supply clerk. "Here is your toilet paper sir".

She is not a hero, she is a victim. All it takes to be a hero now is to get captured without firing a shot and getting cornholed? Calling her a hero is an insult to people who actually are heros.



Last edited by [Labret] at Nov 7 2003, 07:48 AM

hehehhe. :bwave:

Somehow, I find speculation by keyboard warriors about what Jessica could or couldn't know about her rescue effort kind of amusing. Predictable, but amusing.

I noticed that Ronnie Raygunz cartoonist son didn't miss the opportunity to blame the hoopla on the feminist conspiracy. I wonder what conspiracy is responsible for fake letters to the editor submitted to small-town newspapers without the knowledge of the supposed authors?

The military PR machine needed a hero. As I said before, she's white, reasonably cute, and was a great vehicle for diverting attention away from real news and onto her and the hokey story they concocted.

Is she a hero? She doesn't meet Patton's definition, because she apparently didn't make any "poor dumb bastards die for their country." However, she did survive a pretty horrible ordeal.

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with [Labret] (evne though he always remind me of a great line that the ventriloquist William Safire caused the puppet Spiro Agnew to utter - "nattering nabobs of negativism") - she's as much of a victim as a hero. It could be that her "lack of eloquence" is one of the attributes that allowed her to survive.

Some, for example, as articulate as you is likely to get shot a lot quicker.

And if you survived long enough to get captured ... :D

I don't consider her to be a hero, because I don't consider her to have done anything heroic. I consider her to be unlucky to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, and lucky to be alive. However, she did put her life on the line to volunteer to be in the military, and so that's worth some points in my book.

There is no good reason why she should not profit from her experience if the marketplace is willing to reward her for it. Now ask me if politicians should be allowed to profit from their experience (which mostly consists of using force or the threat of force to redistribute resources and mooch off the taxpayer).

PD, would you care to explain to me what Jessica *could* know about the part of her rescue that she was not involved in?

Seems to me that all she could know about that part of her rescue would be hearsay, just as all that you or I know about that part of her rescue is hearsay.
Unless I'm missing some impirical knowledge that only you and Jessica seem to share that allows you to know the full details of events that you were not present for?

If you find "speculation by keyboard warriors" amusing, you should try watching "omnipotent name-callers." :P

I had to run to google to figure out what that even meant.

:rokk:



Last edited by [Labret] at Nov 7 2003, 02:52 PM

Half of this discussion disgusts me - the other half, at least, has made me think. The best part? Wow... people are actually "looking up stuff" that they didn't know.

Everything is educational - even this thread.

Hero, survivor, victim, media princess.... whatever. Either way she's been through a lot more shit than most of us will ever see in our entire lives and has survived. That at least deserves some respect - even if not the title of hero.

As far as the comment about women eating up this book for the 'Lifetime' set... remember not to generalize. We're not all card-carrying nazi shithead feminists looking for a new heroine to put on a pedestal and worship. Give the rest of us a little more credit. <_<

Kath... I went back and re-read the original thread on the other board that gave me the idea to post this here. I have to agree that for the most part there has been actual intelligent discussion and that is what I was really looking for. Not all of the crap that usually is accompanied by this type of thread. Agree or disagree the discussion has been interesting.


I like this place and think I will hang around.

Carrie, just to start with she was there. She also might have sources a little more "in the loop" (and far less controlled) than yours or mine.

I don't pretend to know the details of the rescue. I certainly don't trust media accounts of it - and I give her account only marginally more credence than media accounts. I don't doubt that it was dangerous - but at the point it took place there was a better than average chance that Iraqi resistance would simply melt away. So simply put, I view ANYONE who makes declaritive statements about it with a considerable amount of distrust.

I had to run to google to figure out what that even meant.


:rokk:[/b][/quote]
Fuck, I wish I'd had google when I first heard it - I had to look it up in my Funk and Wagnells. That's a heavy fuggin book, man, and there's like, soooooo many realllllllllllllllllly far out words.

glad i could disgust you.

sometimes my opinions tend to do that.

dont let it bother you, i dont let it bother me.

:inlove:

Id like to see sales reports and who buys this book.

somehow I doubt many men will buy this crap.

i can just see marines sitting around reading it.

Yeah, R Lee Ermey gonna mention it on Mail Call. yeah.

sorry, thats just not the case, every product has a target audience, and if this shit isnt targetted towardas the women who sit home all day and watch Lifetime, what is?



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 7 2003, 05:12 PM

That book will wind up in the clearance section of mall bookstores. Too much hype and she's already denying half the shit.

But no doubt lonely housewives with bookclub memberships are looking forward to it.

Yes, the nice, cute, little white girl is a Hero!

Now, who (without searching) can name the black woman that was captured with her? The one that went through interrogation by the Iraqis? The one that was scared shitless when they showed her image on the television? (While poor Jessica was out cold in the infirmary) Yes, the overweight, black female cook!

I guess a black, overweight, female cook just isn't a Hero....

Hit the nail on the head with that one. I identified with the black cook. When I saw her on the screen I clearly felt part of what she was experiencing. I feared for her. BTW what happened to her? I remember seeing footage of her and the others held with her running off a plane together a while after their rescue. The report said they were healthy. I thought for sure they would rape and torture her. If they didn't, I'm glad she didn't have to endure that.

Jessica on the other hand, I did not identify with. I never saw her fear.. only footage of her being whisked away half dead and hearing reports that all of the other guys of ours that were held with her were dead.

I secretly wondered if they went in shooting at anything that moved after they got their sites on her. I thought it was the stereotypical macho testosterone thing to do.... save your pussy at all cost. Now she has pretty much confirmed that. I'm glad JL is keeping it real and taking a stand against how she was portrayed. She might not be smart but she has good character.

Hey guys.. anyone else notice that now the presidential race in on the horizon we are seeing more good things creeping in our news reports like "Joblessness falls as payroll numbers grow again". I wonder what new miracle the president is going to work these next few months to clean his tarnished image?

Yeah, athletes. You got me all figured out. I watch sports probably as much as you read.

Where in that did you read that I thought you had to be a genius to be a hero? I simply said she was dumb as a stump. It was painfully embarrassing listening to her stumblefuck her way through a poorly written statement that sounded like it was penned by an 8 year old. How she made it into the military is beyond me, I thought we had tougher standards post Vietnam. Its no wonder she was just a supply clerk. "Here is your toilet paper sir".

She is not a hero, she is a victim. All it takes to be a hero now is to get captured without firing a shot and getting cornholed? Calling her a hero is an insult to people who actually are heros.[/b][/quote]
As a matter of fact, I probably read a hell of a lot more than you...ever hear of E.E. Smith? How about Ayn Rand? Ann Coulter?

That said, I stick by my original interpretation of your post.

As for her statement, I recognize the structure and content as coming almost directly from a certain KKK'er who just happens to be very anti-war, anti-military, and the elder Senator from...





West Virginia!

As for the 'hero' part, the last I heard, our military forces were all volunteer. That means she joined of her own accord. In my opinion, ALL of our people who are serving or have served in combat (may I remind you of Bosnia, Kosovo, VietNam, Korea, etc.?) are heroes. Whether she deserved a Bronze Star or just a Purple Heart IS debatable. Personally, I would have stopped at the PH...

There ARE others there who have done more. They are of many races and both sexes. As I said, they are ALL heroes.