CJ there are some basic HUMAN RIGHTS. Which include freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom to not be murdered, property rights, etc... etc...

There are some cultures that do NOT hold this rights to the same degree as western nations - ironicly these cultures that do NOT have these rights are the "hot spots" in the world. The spead of basic human rights and freedom has expanded with globalization.

I do not think like you CJ, I think there are basic human rights that all people deserve - no matter what their culture, their religion, age, region or anything else.

I am so the people who have been opressed and murder by regimes like Saddam Husseuin will thank your understanding and support of Saddams Culture.

To say that all cultures are equal on all issues is WRONG, and morally bankrupt. People deserve to enjoy the basic freedoms of Human Rights.


To say all cultures are equal no matter what is wrong. If that was the case we should still encourgae slavery since it was part of the culture in many societies around the world. Maybe we should also take the right of women to vote here in the US, since this is pretty recent that they could vote. I could go on and on.... but I doubt you will change you mind....

The way I feel is while I think everyone deserves these basic human rights, I do not think the US should force them onto other people through military intervention. It is only when these cultures become THREATS to us that we need to go in and intervene militarily.... like we are doing in Iraq. But while we are there, we might as well try to fix things, and setup a fresh culture where good squads do not pull people from their houses and kill them for speaking up against the regime, a culture where the gov't does not gas their own people.

Oh and CJ there has been NO American Imperalism.... not since the Spanish-American war.

If anythign through out history we have worked to break up other peoples Empires. Including Europes....

Globalization is spreading accross the world, while the US is the top economic power, and hence pushes globalization - it is not the only one. Everyon who is plugged into the world economy if part of it... and that includes you wonderful country! ( Not being sarcastic, Austrialia is an important partner in the world economy)

CJ,

I don't place any value judgement on any of the things we are discussing. Do I think that people will just sit back and think "oh well, I don't have a choice"? No, of course not!

Just to be clear and you probably already know this .. I didn't say it was good, bad, or anything. I'm not placing any value judgement on it. Just pointed out that it is. As we both know, none of this is new in the world. It's all relative. As I've said elsewhere, I don't think there's such a thing as a "best nation" or anything like that. I am not making any points to argue for why one country is BETTER than another.

Now ...

"American Imperialism". By what criteria is it "strong"? It's probably one of the weakest forms of imperialism to ever exist on Earth. Look at what "great powers" have done in the history of the world and the US stands out as being not so bad. The Spanish, British, French, English, Romans, Ottomans, Russians, and Germans used their power to subjugate people of foreign lands to their rule. They conquered and kept. Just to be sure, Empire is not dead. Just a few decades ago the Soviet Union was rumbling across Eastern Europe annexing countries. Maybe this is the source of the phrase "Pax America" and "New World Order". Empires of conquest will no longer be permitted in the world. We'll see.

This is why I call US actions as imperialism without colonialism. I do see them as imperialistic and I can see why people perceive the US in the way they do. I would also point out that this happened during VietNam. There were anti-US protests in Germany, for example. Waves of anti-Americanism have swept the world since World War II but for the first time since WW II, there is no balancing power. In my view, this permits attention to be focused more squarely on the US than ever before.

The US hasn't changed it's actions in the past four decades. It is involved in the same number of conflicts and wars as it always has been. Korea, VietNam, Gulf War I, Gulf War II. Grenada,
Haiti, Kosovo. Why the suddenly new wave of anti-americanism world-wide? Why the protests now? America hasn't changed. Same shit. Different decade. To me, the answer is the fall of the USSR. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

Is Australia an imperialist power? It seems to send troops off to wherever the US does. What is the difference? The number of troops?

As far as "US imperialism causing 9/11". Every event was caused by some other event in someone's mind. One person can say "Hitler started World War II". Hitler said "The allies unfairly treated us at the end of World War I. THAT started World War II". One person says "America started this war". Another says "Saddam's actions started this war". It's all a matter of what starting point you choose.

What would have been the consequences of United States inaction the past five decades. A Japanese Empire? A stronger USSR? The spread of communism? One third or more of the world's oil in Saddam's hands? A conquered Israel? Nukes in Saddam's hands? Interesting choices.

We didn't start the fire. It was always burning.



Last edited by Colin at Apr 6 2003, 06:57 AM

How is the US economy "nose diving"? GDP is GROWING, albeit slower than it was. Much of the world is experiencing the same slow growth that the United States is, but it is growth. It seems pretty minor. Oil prices alone might explain that - but no one knows.



Last edited by Colin at Apr 6 2003, 06:45 AM

see, you can't get your head past the idea that my negative comments are a support to Suddam Hussein ... The fact that you have concluded that any opinion I have against anything at all must be in support of saddam, makes it fruitless to have a discussion.

*but i'm bored and procrastinating on a job I have to do so i'll beat my head against the wall some more

This is not about human rights, we've been through lists of other countries where people do not have their basic rights ... you can claim that you are there because they have become a threat to us after 9/11, but how do you justify the american interference there prior to 9/11?

In every post you talk about the 'fixing' of the iraqui people's lives, which is great if all you are talking about doing is giving them basic human rights .... but the way you talk is if you intend to remove as much of their culture as you can and replace it with an american tourist disneyland style location where we will all get to visit and awe at the improvement to the place that we 'fixed'.

When you remove suddam, and give people the freedom to live in a democracy, and distribute wealth so there is less poverty ... etc etc ... we are still left with Islam and the rejection (and hatred) of western ways. For every problem we 'fix', we are creating another hater. Saddam isn't the only influence on his people's minds.

You seem to forget, we are on the same side in the fight against suddam. I'm nervous as hell on this island with practically no protection and a bunch of pissed off muslims a boat ride away - i feel like we are poking a stick into an ants nest. and although I want to support the direction we are going, I see so many dangers and areas where this can backfire on all of our asses. And what america does, australia does, so if it goes bad, we are all fucked!

These young boys, 10 year olds who are screaming anti american slogans and throwing stones at our soldiers will be old enough to join the underground military soon ... is the 'threat' going to be sorted out by then?

Its a good thing you have enough confidence in your leader for both of us.

I object your honor!
Speculation!

I don't know what the world would be like if usa didn't act on these issues, do you?

It would be worse for us, but possibly better for some other country somewhere.

Maybe your grandparents would have gone from Italy to somewhere else ... maybe the people of germany would have eventually overthrown hitler! :blink: maybe a giant monster would have risen from the sea and eaten all of the humans and none of us would have been born except a small tribe of eskimo's in alaska and the whole of civilisation would start again from hunting and gathering era. :blink:

If things weren't one way, they'd be another

I object your honor!
Speculation!

I don't know what the world would be like if usa didn't act on these issues, do you?

[/b][/quote]
That's why they all have question marks!

I'm going to the beach. Back later ...

Speaking of speculation CJ..... Shhhesshh! haha

Colin, I think CJ is one of those people who beleive the Iraqi Minister of Information. :D

Really?
Lets see who administrates Iraq afte the war.

;)

not you canadien sissies, thanks God

What are you talking aboot? eh?

:P :D :) B)

read above

Serge is just having a pissed off at Canadians day... common on all threads... bait for the easily hooked, I guess.

Alex

Alex,
He either needs sleep or must spend less time with Forest. ;)

BTW Serge if a near relative was a member of certain college societies,you get in.

From what I understand, if you get rid of Quebec ( frenchies) the support for the US is actually a majority. I have read some intersting stories...

So I guess not all Canadiens suck! haha :P

good one mike!! you get out of having to use your own brain again!!
:okthumb:




:wankit:

cj, it's a standard technique... easier to paint you as an extremist or totally ignorant than to deal with the ideas your posting. Between that and baiting, it's interesting around here. :-)

Alex

yeah i wonder which of these topics mike will be parroting next ...

Stop Apologizing for Civilian Casualties
Peter Schwartz, 04/03/03

Smashing Windows for Peace
Robert Garmong, 03/25/03

Thought Control
Onkar Ghate, 03/19/03

Don't Defy the United Nations—End It
Robert W. Tracinski, 03/18/03

They Hate Us, Too
Peter Schwartz, 03/17/03

sarcasm?

Nick, who me? Nahhh... no sarcasm here... none at all... ever...

Alex :rolleyes:

just checking ;)

CJ no parroting here - you are the one with no basis for your arguements but the way you "feel".

It is difficult to debate issues with someone so far out of touch with reality, and relies merely upon her simpleton emotional state to guide her arguements.

The best part of our "debates" is that reality is following my arguements. Watch the news... The people who have similiar views of Foreign Policy, and National Security are the ones running the show. Rumsfield, Wolfowitz, Dr. Rice, Dick Cheney, all the way down...

and 75% of the worlds nations believe the US has acted inappropriately.

I suspect therefore they have some lack of knowledge in Foriegn affairs.

;)



Last edited by Nickatilynx at Apr 6 2003, 06:48 PM

Nick, each Nation has their own Foreign Policy which is best for their own interests. I would not expect most nations to agree with us.... I am possitive that all the nations that supported the Iraq regime are pretty ticked off - including Russia, France, Syria, etc...

That is what is great about being the United States, we CAN act unilateraly. We try not to, we always try to care about the "world" opinion, and work with inside it - however when our National Security is at risk we CAN and OBVIOUSLY do act on it, no matter what 75% of the world thinks.....

If anyone can appreciate that position Nick, I figured it would be YOU! B)

Mike, if Canada said yes all the time, then we would be nothing but lapdogs, americans in all but tax system and currency. Sometimes what is in the US interest isn't COMPLETELY in the Canadian Interest. Sometimes it is in all of our interests, but we different on the "how to get it done". If we all agreed all the time, there wouldn't be much to talk about at all, ya know?

Alex

bullshit...
you do NOT agree all the time...

you disagree with prices on timber and we didn't make big deal about it despite of 1/2 of logging industry in Oregon is in trouble, because we thought you were friends...
fuck Canada and their small penis syndrom

damn and feck!

;)

Tee-hee... things must be dull Serge, you trying to piss with everyone, and nobody is biting... THAT must bite.

Alex

:zzz: *YAWN* :zzz:

Same shit, different thread

CJ,

I agree with you. And if America weren't the "bully" some other nation would be, so why stress? :P